Consistency & volume over intensity

Look, I'm not going to lie. There's a guy in here, "Lockout", that makes this one of the least productive and most boring places to talk training on the internet, and no one can be bothered to ban him. Buyer beware. Arguments about minutiae. Ad hominems. Appeals to authority. Training #1.

Moderators: John Henry Brown, duane hansen

Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby PierreSuter » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:56 pm

Pretty good podcast with Joe Rogan and Firas Zahabi explaining the superiority of daily training with medium intensity. I know several on this board train that way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbCcWyYthQ

I've always been more of a high intensity guy, but TBH my best gains in both olmpic lifting and bodybuilding came from taking a comfortable/medium weight and doing a shit ton of volume with it.
"Constant dripping hollows out a stone."

http://www.springhillfitnesstn.com
PierreSuter
Lucky Pierre
 
Posts: 4763
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:11 pm

Re: Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby stevein7 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:16 am

Its just a battle with gravity, vary it up seems to keep it interesting. The way you enjoy (or least dislike) is probably going to get you the best results.
‘’Either the proletarian revolution is victorious or capitalist barbarism will destroy humanity”.
User avatar
stevein7
Faggotry both rampant and insidious
 
Posts: 5352
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:41 am

Re: Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby randygillett » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:13 am

PierreSuter wrote:
I've always been more of a high intensity guy, but TBH my best gains in both olmpic lifting and bodybuilding came from taking a comfortable/medium weight and doing a shit ton of volume with it.

Same story here. I wish I had been wise enough to realize this when I was young. I probably would have lifted more weight and been healthier as well. At least I got to apply the same principle in older age towards bicycle racing with much success.

The only thing I don’t necessarily agree with is the “daily training” thing. One should be careful when taking one step forward with a more moderate intensity to not take a step backward with too much frequency. I achieved my best results by avoiding the backward step by not increasing frequency (or increasing it very little).
"whenever any animal's behavior puts it out of touch with the realities of its existence, it becomes extinct". ---- Michael Crichton
User avatar
randygillett
3000 and no tag? PM Snadden for a tag
 
Posts: 3224
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:01 pm

Re: Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby randygillett » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:17 am

stevein7 wrote:Its just a battle with gravity, vary it up seems to keep it interesting. The way you enjoy (or least dislike) is probably going to get you the best results.

I’m not so sure about that. That’s a problem with going all out — it’s just so damn fun — until it isn’t. Training with moderate weights can be pretty boring. It’s like that test where you are offered a cookie you can eat now but if you wait an hour you can have two.
"whenever any animal's behavior puts it out of touch with the realities of its existence, it becomes extinct". ---- Michael Crichton
User avatar
randygillett
3000 and no tag? PM Snadden for a tag
 
Posts: 3224
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:01 pm

Re: Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby Laconic Lifter » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:16 pm

In a podcast, Lyle McDonald says Fred Hatfield thought "hardgainers" needed MORE volume/frequency at moderate load instead of less vol/freq and higher intensity ala HIT, Mentzer, Yates...
...because "hardgainers" and "ectomorphs" were really just that way because neurotic jittery type and cortisol high every day and couldn't recover from high intensity even if less frequent.

I can't find this - still looking - no longer have Hatfield books but read them back in the day.

Not arguing about the 'hardgainer" crap but most "regular gainers" may also fall into this if job, family, no roids and certainly old folk may hormonally be "hardgainers".

HAHHAHA there will be 3 guys discussing this here with about 2 more posts and then nothing for a few more weeks - random drive by posting, cheers
Laconic Lifter
resents being compared to Canadians
 
Posts: 2692
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:34 am

Re: Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby FMJ » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:27 am

My take:

If an activity is primarily skill based consistency & volume matters much more than intensity.
If an activity is primarily bound to basic physiological processes, like muscle building, high intensity (difficulty, not load) might be necessary on occasion or at least helpful. But not all the time.

Going broke all the time catches up to everyone sooner or later.

Why should anyone work really hard on their training/sport then, you might ask?

Because time is limited.
Maybe you need to be X at point Y and
intensity brings you there and you can rest/cruise afterwards.
Think about some young freak who needs to be great by 20 to get drafted. Long-term means little if a window of opportunity has passed.
Or maybe you can peak a little higher by doing things (trainingwise) that will leave you broken in the end. For some that is worth it.
I am not sure if the peaking thing is really true, at least if
we are talking training strategies, but it very well could be.
"I hit you with your own pimp!"
FMJ
No one man should have all that chowder
 
Posts: 3157
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby stevein7 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:05 am

I still think variety and subjective feelings (do I hate this? ) are likely the way to go. As I get further into my fifties, my desire to experience the ultimate torching of my muscles has diminished. I also think that the highest intensity interferes with my sleep.... not sure about that .But I have an ever greater urge to do volume with light weights (kettlebells) and endurance stuff like running, biking, rowing, punchbag etc. Life is a process,we move on. Taking anabolics may prolong adolescence for a very long time but from a health perspective, I doubt that getting big/speciaslisation on a narrow strength focus is a good idea long term. I look at the crossfit people, incredible specimens, cream of the crop at the games squatting under 500ish, deadlifting under 600ish on average. Suggests to me that from the health perspective for the mature end, concentration on poundage/weight gain is not the way.
Of course the younger end will be interested in pushing the limits and likely suffer few ill effects.
‘’Either the proletarian revolution is victorious or capitalist barbarism will destroy humanity”.
User avatar
stevein7
Faggotry both rampant and insidious
 
Posts: 5352
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:41 am

Re: Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby PierreSuter » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:37 am

I think high intensity (effort) is better for short term gains in size & strength but isn't sustainable long term for most people. It's best used for a peaking cycle or a shock here and there.

Incidentally, Ric Drasin who trained with Arnold in the 70's at Gold's said he never saw Arnold use more than 50 pound DBs for curls. For photo shoots they would load up heavy weights like 8 plates on Tbar rows etc but they didn't actually train that heavy. Lots of volume though.
"Constant dripping hollows out a stone."

http://www.springhillfitnesstn.com
PierreSuter
Lucky Pierre
 
Posts: 4763
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:11 pm

Re: Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby Snake Plisken » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:35 am

PierreSuter wrote:I think high intensity (effort) is better for short term gains in size & strength but isn't sustainable long term for most people. It's best used for a peaking cycle or a shock here and there.

Incidentally, Ric Drasin who trained with Arnold in the 70's at Gold's said he never saw Arnold use more than 50 pound DBs for curls. For photo shoots they would load up heavy weights like 8 plates on Tbar rows etc but they didn't actually train that heavy. Lots of volume though.


Much agree.
If I needed single heavy strength, it seemed shorter duration cycles and or a creeping up the intensity with heavier and heavier loads worked well, but if I stayed too long trying to keep increasing, I was burning out and losing the battle.
As far as the old BB'ers. Yes, like Nubret, Tinnerino, et al, they seemed to use light to med loads with higher volume and frequency and it worked well without batting joints and killing CNS output.
What if doing the Hokey Pokey and then turning yourself around, is really what it's all about???
Snake Plisken
I heard you were dead.
 
Posts: 9068
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: In The Arena

Re: Consistency & volume over intensity

Postby Jughead » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:15 pm

Seems that higher level athletes can tolerate higher intensity. This is an area where trainees, myself included, have often lost their way: So many high level guys train in a certain way, they can't all be wrong, the thinking goes. But they all have one thing in common (well, two, and the other helps tolerate higher intensity as well): They are genetically able to handle those loads. When lesser mortals try to run with the big dogs, they stall and burn out.
Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words. -- St. Francis of Assisi
Jughead
almost as diesel as Chuck Norris
 
Posts: 2681
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:13 pm
Location: staring into the abyss


Return to Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron