Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

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Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby lockout » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:33 pm

Remember HIT guys back in the day used to say you have to take your sets to failure? I never saw a solid argument about it. It was always just he said she said "insert bullshit claim".

Well I thought about it. And fact is even the studies that Arthur Jones used to site to say 1 set was just the same as 3 sets, well I would have to say his statements were falsely representing the studies. An honest look at the results of the studies would show that Jones was living in dream land. More sets proved to be better.

OK, so what does that have to do with taking sets to failure? It's all about volume. 3 sets works better than 1 set because it's more volume, more work, more time under tension. So I would argue the point that if one chooses to do only one set, taking that set to complete failure is going to be the only way to get the most out of that set.

It isn't that not taking a set to failure won't work. But taking the set to failure is going to be the best way to get the most out of the set. And that's assuming the scenario where one actually chooses to do only one set.

The proof is in the pudding that many different styles of training work just fine at making people bigger and stronger. More volume works just fine. But the less time you want to spend in the gym, the harder you have to work. At least that's the way I see it.
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby stevein7 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:39 am

I think failure is not required, though sometimes it is a byproduct of beating the book/numbers. Often there is not much difference between making progress and failure. but I think progress over time is all that is required.
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby PierreSuter » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:54 pm

From what I've seen and experienced, the fastest gains come by cutting back on volume and increasing intensity of effort in the spirit of HIT, but training that way all the time almost never works. You burn out mentally and physically. It's better used as a peaking phase after building a base with more volume and less intensity. The bigger base you build, the longer and more successful the high intensity peaking phase can be because you've built up the work capacity to the point that the low volume is really easy to recover from. Guys who train HIT all the time without ever building back up their base typically end up spinning their wheels and dreading training.

I also think HIT training makes some sense to supplement a sport. The athlete is already doing a lot of lower intensity exercise with their actual sport, so it's better to keep the weight sessions brief.
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby stevein7 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:38 am

Maybe hard stimulant use is part of the puzzle. Hit once a week on amphetamine might work. Not that I am going to test that theory.
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby brooklynjerry » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:57 am

RPE 11 perhaps.
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby Laconic Lifter » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:16 pm

RPE 11 perhaps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_kddYSiceg&list=RDuMSV4OteqBE&index=14


http://fpio.org.ru/data/50-powerlib//Science_and_Practice.pdf
page 81

1. Max effort method (max out)
2. Repeated effort method (going to failure)
3. Dynamic effort method method (speed)
4. Submaximal effort method (volume)

So which is best / do all, some, only 1?

? depend on genetics, mechanics, recovery, time, applicaiton
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby randygillett » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:24 pm

Laconic Lifter wrote:
1. Max effort method (max out)
2. Repeated effort method (going to failure)
3. Dynamic effort method method (speed)
4. Submaximal effort method (volume)

So which is best / do all, some, only 1?

? depend on genetics, mechanics, recovery, time, applicaiton

Three and four are medicine, one and two are poison. Poison has its place every now and then but it can kill you easily.
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby stevein7 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:25 am

I used to do a version of westside where I did ME days and rather than DE days I did German volume training (10 x10 on a short timer)
So I suppose that is a possible instance of using those poisonous methods. But yes, its a bit like putting your hand in a flame, or less dramatically, sunbathing. There is a risk of getting burnt.

The method I most dislike is absolute failure training, I avoid that. Get close, but don't aim for it.
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby randygillett » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:29 am

10x10 isn’t so bad if you use a proper governor and adequately light weight. I think in the case of 10x10 a proper governor would be a certain percentage of max or rest period restriction AND, more importantly, a heart-rate monitor. Cardiac stress is the potential poison here.
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby PierreSuter » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:05 pm

I tend to stay out of trouble if I keep the weight under 2/3 of max, whether I'm using speed, volume, or to-failure. But heavier weights make me bigger and stronger, so it's a never ending dance between the two.
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Re: Old HIT beliefs of training to failure?

Postby Laconic Lifter » Thu May 03, 2018 4:11 am

Never notice this before but google sayeth:

Reg Park thought never ever go to failure.

Reg Park beginner routine = squat, bench press, deadlift, all 5x5 with first 2 sets warmup then last 3 sets across

hmmm.... sounds like Starting Strength
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