Soya for protein

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Soya for protein

Postby stevein7 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:31 am

I read a lot of contradictory stuff about soya and estrogen. This sounded positive...
Phytoestrogens act as natural SERMS. They are thousands of times weaker than estrogen hormones present in the body, yet they competitively bind to the receptor - UNABLING the real estrogen to bind to it. So in a way - isoflavones can even act as ANTI-ESTROGENS.

Anyone have an informed view?
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby randygillett » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:57 am

I wish I could trust everything I see on the Internet. I would love to go vegan if there were no downsides. I just can’t bring myself to buy in despite guys like ClarenceO and that Alphadestiny kid going vegan and not suffering any negative consequences (yet). Oh well, I don’t have too many years left and the only animal product I eat is whey so...
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby Jughead » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:21 am

Sounding like someone's cranky grandpa here, but considering how much bogus and misunderstood research is out there, I'm inclined to believe my own experience and logic over research unless the data is really strong. How may fads have we all seen come and go?

As far as soy, I don't know what molecules are doing what inside me but I feel my test leaving the building when I have anything soy-rich. So I avoid it as much as possible.
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby FMJ » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:28 am

In what little I read on google scholar there seems to be pretty solid evidence that if you get almost all your protein from soy, it does have detrimental affect on testosterone, though nothing terrible. But vegetarians in general do not have lower test levels and asian heritage might influence the effect of soy as well. My take is:

- vegetarians are seldom fat (at least in absolute terms, skinny fat sometimes) which helps with testosterone
- soy is not the devil but fucks with your hormones if your diet is completely based on it
- at least some populations can consume it without problems but I guess that in a balanced diet it just doesn't matter

You could always go the indian way and consume lots of almonds and chickpeas to get your protein if you are interested in going vegan.
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby BLACKFLAG » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:14 pm

My first and only thought on the matter is: "You have plenty of better alternatives, so why bother?"

Fuck the hippie shit.
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby stevein7 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:48 am

There are a few aspects to it.
Save the animals, save the environment...well, OK, but it is not a training related thing so let's leave that aside for personal deliberation.

Health. Plant based may be the healthy way. I have been down the meat heavy route and read all the stuff about sat fat and cholesterol being harmless, but there are equally sources saying that it does in fact cause cardiovascular issues and who do you believe?

Big issue of price. Vegan and soy is very cheap. I currently take 3 scoops per day of a cheap mixed whey/casein/ soya blend which is half the price of pure whey.

The original post ...soy reduces estrogen?

Cutting and endurance. Vegan is popular amongst endurance athletes as a performance issue, not ethics etc. For us older lifters, health and endurance and heart issues are more important.

But there is a middle ground here, less animal, more plant without going full rabbit.

I would say try everything. I have done paleo, done steak and eggs diets, full on vegan, vegan and fish, all sorts. Some work better for mass, some for cutting.

Looks to me that vegan favours the lean look. But I would not hesitate to say whatever your diet, eat your greens.
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby randygillett » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:57 am

stevein7 wrote:But I would not hesitate to say whatever your diet, eat your greens.

I haven’t eaten greens since my parents literally stopped beating them into me. I would no more eat a green than graze on my front lawn.
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby PierreSuter » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:15 am

Eating soy for protein is like farting in the wind; kinda stinks but mostly inconsequential
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby stevein7 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:57 am

I believe in the mystical power of greens.
Plants have brought me epic experiences.


However, psychedelics aside, broccoli is my top green.


I buy the frozen, eat a few raw chunks every day.

Estrogen blocker...brings us full circle to the OP.
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby BLACKFLAG » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:53 am

Apparently frozen aren't as good in terms of anti-estrogenic value.
Read somewhere the freezing process kinda fucks up those properties.
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby lockout » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:00 pm

SERMs are no good. Because they can act on the receptors in a different way and cause some severe side effects such as mood swings and depression.

I know bodybuilders use SERMs for certain purposes. But there are better and safer ways. And I stand by it that nobody should take them ever for any reason. It's garbage.
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Re: Soya for protein

Postby stevein7 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:35 am

As I understand it, after a cycle of steroids, testosterone production is suppressed and the hormonal profile is more feminised, therefore Serms are part of the post cycle protocol to block estrogen.

All sounds horrible to me, there is no guarantee testosterone production will revive and I have heard stories about months of limp dick even for young men, and the older you are, the worse it gets. Looks to me like a fluctuating sex change.

I was tempted by SARMS, but my research showed they are pretty weak and the suppression still occurs,but maybe less severe. Again, not for me.

I d rather have a long and healthy process. I hope to be lifting for decades to come, and I have been at it for thirty odd years, A lot of what I do is related to work capacity, handling high frequency, cardio and staying lean, not really interested in peaking anymore, just consistent and steady.
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